WHY! (Ten Commandments)

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (William D McCrum) — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 15:53:26 GMT

I'm delighted that 'Exodus' is getting the spotlight again. It's a brilliant, immediate score, very well crafted. Pieces like 'Fight for Survival' and 'Vale of Jezreel' use the main theme in great classical variation. And roll on 'Lawrence' too. Musical people outside the film-music community know 'Exodus' long before they ever hear of Rozsa or North. It's long overdue. You have to admit, 'Tadlow' haven't missed the mark yet.

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (Breda Von Krolock) — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 05:35:51 GMT

Indeed a powerful theme.

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (Tadlow) — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:35:20 GMT

Sorry to disappoint people but much as I would like to do QUO VADIS, TEN COMMANDMENTS, SPARTACUS, THIEF OF BAGDAD etc.... next, I can confirm that it will be EXODUS.

Yes, I know the film is long, a bit boring, totally miscast, and a rather limp adaptation of the Uris' original novel....but it is a really fine score that deserves to be heard in all its glory! Obviously the main theme is one of the most famous in film music history but I feel many people do not realise how good...

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (A Lee Hern) — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 18:20:45 GMT

The reputation of the film as a whole has carried along the score in its wake, as sometimes happens.

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (pp312) — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 15:54:56 GMT

"seems I'm note the only one"

Yes, we've noted that.

"I don't understand the OP's hostility though, Exodus and Lawrence will be great additions to the Tadlow catalogue. "

I think the OPs hostility is mainly toward LAWRENCE, a somewhat crude score (I remember being shocked by it at the time, after the sophistication of EL CID and BEN-HUR) whose fame seems to rests mostly on a couple of attractive themes. (OK, I could be...

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (TJGuitar) — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 13:20:06 GMT

seems I'm note the only one who wants Ten Commandments. I don't understand the OP's hostility though, Exodus and Lawrence will be great additions to the Tadlow catalogue.

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (William D McCrum) — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 08:33:50 GMT

No, THE WILD NORTH is clearly the work of Bronislau Kaper.

The harmonic structure, the chords and the orchestration are clearly Bronislau Kaper ... those are the elements that betray any composer's technique and style. But melody is quite different. Rozsa's historical borrowings have his own unique stamp, but they aren't his melodically. There are...

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (TomD) — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 07:22:16 GMT

Clearly Kaper is at fault... for using an Egyptian-sounding theme in a western.

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (pp312) — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 15:33:18 GMT

"THE BEY INSISTED THEY DO IT ON THE OTTOMAN"

"DON'T MESS WITH THE KAPER CRUSADER AND HIS BOY, ROBBIN'"

I think it's getting worse.

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (A Lee Hern) — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:45:06 GMT

No, THE WILD NORTH is clearly the work of Bronislau Kaper.

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (Breda Von Krolock) — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 20:33:25 GMT

William D McCrum wrote:
Well, I've had a quick listen to my 'Ten Commandments' and 'Buccaneer' CDs and I certainly get the connection with 'Wild North', but I can't string the notes of the theme you mention to Wagner's precise theme, even on a keyboard. Now the MOST Wagnerian passage of all is the 'Pillar of Fire' segment, where the strings emulate the 'Valkyrie' string figures...

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (William D McCrum) — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:00:38 GMT

Well, I've had a quick listen to my 'Ten Commandments' and 'Buccaneer' CDs and I certainly get the connection with 'Wild North', but I can't string the notes of the theme you mention to Wagner's precise theme, even on a keyboard. Now the MOST Wagnerian passage of all is the 'Pillar of Fire' segment, where the strings emulate the 'Valkyrie' string figures and the horns bang out something very like the 'Fliegende Hollander' motif. But...

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (A Lee Hern) — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 11:36:34 GMT

The "Law/Judgment" motiv is precisely the one I referred to as being pure Ride of the Valkyries. I'm very surprised that you don't hear it.

With all that Elmer had riding on his assignment to score THE TEN COMMANDMENTS -- personal, professional, financial and otherwise -- one would think that the last thing he'd want to do is consciously plagiarize another film composer's work, as it would likely come around to bite him hard (and, were I...

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (William D McCrum) — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:59:13 GMT

A Lee Hern wrote:

Elmer gave DeMille exactly the pseudo-Wagner the director at least subliminally sought, with his main TEN COMMANDMENTS theme little more than a generalized transposition of the notes in Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries from Die Walküre (to pretty much the same extent as, say, Bill Conti's main theme to THE RIGHT STUFF is a mere transposition of...

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (A Lee Hern) — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:32:36 GMT

Well, there was a lot of indignation about this when someone pointed it out on the FSM board, but it sounds incontrovertible. Of course these things could be coincidence. 'Wild North' does show that 'Mutiny on the Bounty' was Kaper's, though some wanted to claim it for a Rozsa ghost-write, but the whole main theme from 'Wild North' is based on that theme in Ten C. that is used to invoke Moses and the Israelites throughout. It may also beg the...

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (William D McCrum) — Sat, 25 Oct 2008 06:01:33 GMT

A Lee Hern wrote:

LAWRENCE OF ARABIA is a great film largely in spite of Jarre's score; certainly not, in part, because of it.

And as for Kaper's THE WILD NORTH, it just sounds like a scaled-down version of his MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY (big surprise), yet you don't suggest that that and Bernstein's TEN COMMANDMENTS share a kinship.

...

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (A Lee Hern) — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:53:09 GMT

The Turkish Bey indulged himself, and look at where it got him (not to mention Lawrence).

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (pp312) — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:14:12 GMT

filmmusicbuff wrote:

yes I know I'm skating on very thin ice here but....another Lawrence of Arabia! Exodus yes! Spartacus yes!! The Ten Commandments puleeeeeze!

I tend to agree with this, but "Lawrence" appears to be a favourite of James's and he's putting up the money, so there. Also he seems to have some regrets about the previous version and wants a second go. Let's...

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (A Lee Hern) — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:53:45 GMT

When I saw the title of this thread, I thought for a moment that Tonya Harding's hefty henchman had clubbed Nancy Kerrigan in the knee again.

LAWRENCE OF ARABIA is a great film largely in spite of Jarre's score; certainly not, in part, because of it.

And as for Kaper's THE WILD NORTH, it just sounds like a scaled-down version of his MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY (big surprise), yet you don't suggest that that and Bernstein's TEN...

Re: WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (Breda Von Krolock) — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 14:39:21 GMT

William D McCrum wrote:

Also, Elmer was a composer who evolved .... well, perhaps it's better to say that in the case of 'Ten C.' and 'The Buccaneer' he was 'under an influence' i.e. that of the DeMille ethos.

Elmer, when wrote Ten C. was under influence of a certain Wild North, however not the Alex one. I refer to the Bronislau Kaper composition.

Samples...

WHY! (Ten Commandments)

feeds@yuku.com (filmmusicbuff) — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:37:02 GMT

yes I know I'm skating on very thin ice here but....another Lawrence of Arabia! Exodus yes! Spartacus yes!! The Ten Commandments puleeeeeze! how much longer must we wait for Elmer Bernstein's magnum opus to be as gloriously and sumptously re-recorded as maetros Rozsa's El Cid.